11 Jul PHIL 1040 online Questions on Plato, Euthyphro 1. Where does the dialogue take place? What is the back story? 2. For what term is Socrates seeking a definition? 3. What
PHIL 1040 online
Questions on Plato, Euthyphro
1. Where does the dialogue take place? What is the back story?
2. For what term is Socrates seeking a definition?
3. What is the first response which Euthyphro gives to Socrates’s request for a definition? What problem does Socrates have with this answer? (Hint: It’s about definitions and examples.)
4. What is the definition which Euthyphro then provides for Socrates?
5. What is the first problem with this definition that Socrates raises? How does Euthyphro respond to it?
6. What dilemma based on this definition does Socrates then propound? (Hint: A dilemma is a choice between two unpleasant alternatives that we seem to be forced to make.)
7. What revised definition does Euthyphro offer? What problem does Socrates see with the revised definition?
8. How does the dialogue end? What progress have the speakers made toward a resolution of the question?
Euthyphro (excerpt) By Plato, Translated by Benjamin Jowett Persons in the Dialogue—SOCRATES & EUTHYPHRO Scene: The Porch of the King Archon ———————————————————————- Euthyphro. Why have you left the Lyceum, Socrates, and what are you doing in the Porch of the King Archon? Surely you cannot be concerned in a suit before the King, like myself? Socrates. Not in a suit, Euthyphro; impeachment is the word which the Athenians use. Euth. What! I suppose that someone has been prosecuting you, for I cannot believe that you are the prosecutor of another. Soc. Certainly not. Euth. Then someone else has been prosecuting you? Soc. Yes. Euth. And who is he? Soc. A young man who is little known, Euthyphro; and I hardly know him: his name is Meletus, and he is of the deme of Pitthis. Perhaps you may remember his appearance; he has a beak, and long straight hair, and a beard which is ill grown. Euth. No, I do not remember him, Socrates. But what is the charge which he brings against you? Soc. What is the charge? Well, a very serious charge, which shows a good deal of character in the young man, and for which he is certainly not to be despised. He says he knows how the youth are corrupted and who are their corruptors. I fancy that he must be a wise man, and seeing that I am the reverse of a wise man, he has found me out, and is going to accuse me of corrupting his young friends. And of this our mother, the state, is to be the judge. Euth. I rather fear, Socrates, that the opposite will turn out to be the truth. My opinion is that in attacking you [Meletus] is simply aiming a blow at the foundation of the state…
Soc. And what is your suit, Euthyphro? Are you the pursuer or the defendant? Euth. I am the pursuer. Soc. Of whom? Euth. You will think me mad when I tell you. Soc. Why, has the fugitive wings? Euth. Nay, he is not very volatile at this time of life. Soc. Who is he? Euth. My father. Soc. Your father! My good man?? Euth. Yes. Soc. And of what is he accused? Euth. Of murder, Socrates. Soc. By the powers, Euthyphro! How little does the common herd know of the nature of right and truth. A man must be an extraordinary man, and have made great strides in wisdom, before he could have seen his way to bring such an action. Euth. Indeed, Socrates, he must. Soc. I suppose that the man whom your father murdered was one of your relatives? Clearly he was; for if he had been a stranger you would never have thought of prosecuting him. Euth. I am amused, Socrates, at your making a distinction between one who is a relation and one who is not a relation; for surely the pollution is the same in either case, if you knowingly associate with the murderer when you ought to clear yourself and him by proceeding against him. The real question is whether the murdered man has been justly slain. If justly, then your duty is to let the matter alone; but if unjustly, then even if the murderer lives under the same roof with you and eats at the same table, proceed against him. No, the man who is dead was a poor dependent of mine who worked for us as a field labourer on our farm in Naxos. One day in a fit of drunken
passion he got into a quarrel with one of our domestic servants and slew him. My father bound him hand and foot and threw him into a ditch, and then sent to Athens to ask of a diviner what he should do with him. Meanwhile he never attended to him and took no care about him, for he regarded him as a murderer; and thought that no great harm would be done even if he did die. Now this was just what happened. For such was the effect of cold and hunger and chains upon him, that before the messenger returned from the diviner, he was dead. And my father and family are angry with me for taking the part of the murderer and prosecuting my father. They say that he did not kill him, and that if he did, dead man was but a murderer, and I ought not to take any notice, for that a son is impious who prosecutes a father. Which shows, Socrates, how little they know what the gods think about piety and impiety. Soc. Good heavens, Euthyphro! And is your knowledge of religion and of things pious and impious so very exact, that, supposing the circumstances to be as you state them, you are not afraid lest you too may be doing an impious thing in bringing an action against your father? Euth. The best of Euthyphro, and that which distinguishes him, Socrates, from other men, is his exact knowledge of all such matters. What should I be good for without it? Soc. Rare friend! I think that I cannot do better than be your disciple. Then before the trial with Meletus comes on I shall challenge him, and say that I have always had a great interest in religious questions, and now, as he charges me with rash imaginations and innovations in religion, I have become your disciple. You, Meletus, as I shall say to him, acknowledge Euthyphro to be a great theologian, and sound in his opinions; and if you approve of him you ought to approve of me, and not have me into court; but if you disapprove, you should begin by indicting him who is my teacher, and who will be the ruin, not of the young, but of the old; that is to say, of myself whom he instructs, and of his old father whom he admonishes and chastises. And if Meletus refuses to listen to me, but will go on, and will not shift the indictment from me to you, I cannot do better than repeat this challenge in the court. Euth. Yes, indeed, Socrates; and if he attempts to indict me, I am mistaken if I do not find a flaw in him; the court shall have a great deal more to say to him than to me. Soc. And I, my dear friend, knowing this, am desirous of becoming your disciple. For I observe that no one appears to notice you- not even this Meletus; but his sharp eyes have found me out at once, and
he has indicted me for impiety. And therefore, I adjure you to tell me the nature of piety and impiety, which you said that you knew so well, and of murder, and of other offences against the gods. What are they? Is not piety in every action always the same? and impiety, again- is it not always the opposite of piety, and also the same with itself, having, as impiety, one notion which includes whatever is impious? Euth. To be sure, Socrates. Soc. And what is piety, and what is impiety? Euth. Piety is doing as I am doing; that is to say, prosecuting any one who is guilty of murder, sacrilege, or of any similar crime—whether he be your father or mother, or whoever he may be—that makes no difference; and not to prosecute them is impiety. And please to consider, Socrates, what a notable proof I will give you of the truth of my words, a proof which I have already given to others—of the principle, I mean, that the impious, whoever he may be, ought not to go unpunished. For do not men regard Zeus as the best and most righteous of the gods? And yet, they admit that he bound his father (Cronos) because he wickedly devoured his sons, and that he too had punished his own father (Uranus) for a similar reason, in a nameless manner. And yet when I proceed against my father, they are angry with me. So inconsistent are they in their way of talking when the gods are concerned, and when I am concerned. Soc. May not this be the reason, Euthyphro, why I am charged with impiety-that I cannot away with these stories about the gods? And therefore, I suppose that people think me wrong. But as you who are well informed about them approve of them, I cannot do better than assent to your superior wisdom. What else can I say, confessing as I do, that I know nothing about them. Tell me, for the love of Zeus, whether you really believe that they are true. Euth. Yes, Socrates; and things more wonderful still, of which the world is in ignorance. Soc. And do you really believe that the gods, fought with one another, and had dire quarrels, battles, and the like, as the poets say, and as you may see represented in the works of great artists? The temples are full of them; and notably the robe of Athene, which is carried up to the Acropolis at the great Panathenaea, is embroidered with them. Are all these tales of the gods true, Euthyphro? Euth. Yes, Socrates; and, as I was saying, I can tell you, if you
would like to hear them, many other things about the gods which would quite amaze you. Soc. I dare say; and you shall tell me them at some other time when I have leisure. But just at present I would rather hear from you a more precise answer, which you have not as yet given, my friend, to the question: What is "piety"? When asked, you only replied, Doing as you do, charging your father with murder. Euth. And what I said was true, Socrates. Soc. No doubt, Euthyphro; but you would admit that there are many other pious acts? Euth. There are. Soc. Remember that I did not ask you to give me two or three examples of piety, but to explain the general idea which makes all pious things to be pious. Do you not recollect that there was one idea which made the impious impious, and the pious pious? Euth. I remember. Soc. Tell me, what is the nature of this idea, and then I shall have a standard to which I may look, and by which I may measure actions, whether yours or those of anyone else, and then I shall be able to say that such and such an action is pious, such another impious. Euth. I will tell you, if you like. Soc. I should very much like. Euth. Piety, then, is that which is dear to the gods, and impiety is that which is not dear to them. Soc. Very good, Euthyphro; you have now given me the sort of answer which I wanted. But whether what you say is true or not I cannot as yet tell, although I make no doubt that you will prove the truth of your words. Euth. Of course. Soc. Come, then, and let us examine what we are saying. That thing or person which is dear to the gods is pious, and that thing or person which is hateful to the gods is impious, these two being the extreme opposites of one another. Was not that said?
Euth. It was. Soc. And well said? Euth. Yes, Socrates, I thought so; it was certainly said. Soc. And further, Euthyphro, the gods were admitted to have enmities and hatreds and differences? Euth. Yes, that was also said. Soc. And what sort of difference creates enmity and anger? Suppose, for example, that you and I…differ about a number; do differences of this sort make us enemies and set us at variance with one another? Do we not go at once to arithmetic, and put an end to them by a sum? Euth. True. Soc. Or suppose that we differ about magnitudes, do we not quickly end the differences by measuring? Euth. Very true. Soc. And, we end a controversy about heavy and light by resorting to a weigh-scale? Euth. To be sure. Soc. But what differences are there which cannot be thus decided, and which therefore make us angry and set us at enmity with one another? I dare say the answer does not occur to you at the moment, and therefore I will suggest that these enmities arise when the matters of difference are the just and unjust, good and evil, honourable and dishonourable. Are not these the points about which men differ, and about which when we are unable satisfactorily to decide our differences, you and I and all of us quarrel, when we do quarrel? Euth. Yes, Socrates, the nature of the differences about which we quarrel is such as you describe. Soc. And the quarrels of the gods, when they occur, are of a like nature? Euth. Certainly, they are.
Soc. They have differences of opinion, as you say, about good and evil, just and unjust, honourable and dishonourable: there would have been no quarrels among them, if there had been no such differences-would there now? Euth. You are quite right. Soc. Does not every man love that which he deems noble and just and good, and hate the opposite of them? Euth. Very true. Soc. But, as you say, people regard the same things, some as just and others as unjust—about these they dispute; and so there arise wars and fighting among them. Euth. Very true. Soc. Then the same things are hated by the gods and loved by the gods, and are both hateful and dear to them? Euth. True. Soc. And upon this view the same things will be pious And, also, impious? Euth. So I should suppose. Soc. Then, my friend, I remark with surprise that you have not answered the question which I asked. For I certainly did not ask you to tell me what action is both pious and impious: but now it would seem that what is loved by the gods is also hated by them. And therefore, Euthyphro, in thus chastising your father you may very likely be doing what is agreeable to Zeus but disagreeable to Cronos or Uranus, and what is acceptable to Hephaestus but unacceptable to Here, and there may be other gods who have similar differences of opinion. Euth. But I believe, Socrates, that all the gods would be agreed as to the propriety of punishing a murderer: there would be no difference of opinion about that. Soc. Well, but speaking of men, Euthyphro, did you ever hear any one arguing that a murderer or any sort of evil-doer ought to be let off? Euth. I should rather say that these are the questions which they
are always arguing, especially in courts of law: they commit all sorts of crimes, and there is nothing which they will not do or say in their own defence. Soc. But do they admit their guilt, Euthyphro, and yet say that they ought not to be punished? Euth. No; they do not. Soc. Then there are some things which they do not venture to say and do: for they do not venture to argue that the guilty are to be unpunished, but they deny their guilt, do they not? Euth. Yes. Soc. Then they do not argue that the evil-doer should not be punished, but they argue about the fact of who the evil-doer is, and what he did and when? Euth. True. Soc. And the gods are in the same case, if as you assert they quarrel about just and unjust, and some of them say while others deny that injustice is done among them. For surely neither God nor man will ever venture to say that the doer of injustice is not to be punished? Euth. That is true, Socrates, in the main. Soc. But they join issue about the particulars-gods and men alike; and, if they dispute at all, they dispute about some act which is called in question, and which by some is affirmed to be just, by others to be unjust. Is not that true? Euth. Quite true. Soc. Well then, my dear friend Euthyphro, do tell me, for my better instruction and information, what proof have you that in the opinion of all the gods a servant who is guilty of murder, and is put in chains by the master of the dead man, and dies because he is put in chains before he who bound him can learn from the interpreters of the gods what he ought to do with him, dies unjustly; and that on behalf of such an act a son ought to proceed against his father and accuse him of murder. How would you show that all the gods absolutely agree in approving of his act? Prove to me that they do, and I will applaud your wisdom as long as I live.
Euth. It will be a difficult task; but I could make the matter very dear indeed to you. Soc. I understand; you mean to say that I am not so quick of apprehension as the judges: for to them you will be sure to prove that the act is unjust, and hateful to the gods. Euth. Yes indeed, Socrates; at least if they will listen to me. Soc. But they will be sure to listen if they find that you are a good speaker. There was a notion that came into my mind while you were speaking; I said to myself: "Well, and what if Euthyphro does prove to me that all the gods regarded the death of the serf as unjust, how do I know anything more of the nature of piety and impiety? for granting that this action may be hateful to the gods, still piety and impiety are not adequately defined by these distinctions, for that which is hateful to the gods has been shown to be also pleasing and dear to them." And therefore, Euthyphro, I do not ask you to prove this; I will suppose, if you like, that all the gods condemn and abominate such an action. But I will amend the definition so far as to say that what all the gods hate is impious, and what they love pious or holy; and what some of them love and others hate is both or neither. Shall this be our definition of piety and impiety? Euth. Why not, Socrates? Soc. Why not! certainly, as far as I am concerned, Euthyphro, there is no reason why not. But whether this admission will greatly assist you in the task of instructing me as you promised, is a matter for you to consider. Euth. Yes, I should say that what all the gods love is pious and holy, and the opposite which they all hate, impious. Soc. Ought we to enquire into the truth of this, Euthyphro, or simply to accept the mere statement on our own authority and that of others? What do you say? Euth. We should enquire; and I believe that the statement will stand the test of enquiry. Soc. We shall know better, my good friend, in a little while. The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.
Euth. I do not understand your meaning, Socrates. Soc. I will endeavour to explain…Is not that which is beloved distinct from that which loves? Euth. Certainly. Soc. …My meaning is, one does not love because one is in a state of loving, but it is in a state of loving because one loves. Do you not agree? Euth. Yes. Soc. …The state of being loved follows the act of loving, the act [does not follow] the state. Euth. Certainly. Soc. And what do you say of piety, Euthyphro? Is not piety, according to your definition, loved by all the gods? Euth. Yes. Soc. Because it is pious or holy, or for some other reason? Euth. No, that is the reason. Soc. It is loved because it is holy, not holy because it is loved? Euth. Yes. Soc. Then that which is dear to the gods, Euthyphro, is not [always] holy, nor is that which is holy [always] loved of God, as you affirm; but they are two different things. Euth. How do you mean, Socrates? Soc. I mean to say that the holy has been acknowledged by us to be loved of God because it is holy, not to be holy because it is loved. Euth. Yes. Soc. But that which is dear to the gods is dear to them because it is loved by them, not loved by them because it is dear to them. Euth. True.
Soc. But, friend Euthyphro, if that which is holy is the same with that which is dear to God, and is loved because it is holy, then that which is dear to God would have been loved as being dear to God; but if that which dear to God is dear to him because loved by him, then that which is holy would have been holy because loved by him. But now you see that the reverse is the case, and that they are quite different from one another. For one (theophiles) is of a kind to be loved because it is loved, and the other (osion) is loved because it is of a kind to be loved. Thus, you appear to me, Euthyphro, when I ask you what the essence of holiness is, you offer an attribute only, and not the essence-the attribute of being loved by all the gods. But you still refuse to explain to me the nature of holiness. And therefore, if you please, I will ask you not to hide your treasure, but to tell me once more what holiness or piety really is, whether dear to the gods or not (for that is a matter about which we will not quarrel) and what is impiety? Euth. I really do not know, Socrates, how to express what I mean. For somehow or other our arguments, on whatever ground we rest them, seem to turn ‘round and walk away from us….[To] learn all these things accurately will be very tiresome. Let me simply say that piety or holiness is learning, how to please the gods in word and deed, by prayers and sacrifices… Soc. …I can only ask again, what is the pious, and what is piety? Do you mean that they are a, sort of science of praying and sacrificing? Euth. Yes, I do. Soc. And sacrificing is giving to the gods, and prayer is asking of the gods? Euth. Yes, Socrates. Soc. Upon this view, then piety is a science of asking and giving? Euth. You understand me capitally, Socrates. Soc. …Please then to tell me, what is the nature of this service to the gods? Do you mean that we [make] requests and give gifts to them? Euth. Yes, I do. Soc. Is [there a] right way of asking…of them what we want?
Euth. Certainly. Soc. And the right way of giving is to give to them in return what they want of us? Euth. Very true, Socrates. Soc. Then piety, Euthyphro, is an art which gods and men have of doing business with one another? Euth. That is an expression which you may use, if you like. Soc. I have no particular liking for anything but the truth. I wish, however, that you would tell me what benefit accrues to the gods from our gifts. There is no doubt about what they give to us; for there is no good thing which they do not give; but how we can give any good thing to them in return is far from being equally clear. If they give everything and we give nothing, that must be an affair of business in which we have very greatly the advantage of them. Euth. And do you imagine, Socrates, that any benefit accrues to the gods from our gifts? Soc. But if not, Euthyphro, what is the meaning of gifts which are conferred by us upon the gods? Euth. What else, but tributes of honour; and, as I was just now saying, what pleases them? Soc. Piety, then, is pleasing to the gods, but not beneficial or dear to them? Euth. I should say that nothing could be dearer. Soc. Then once more the assertion is repeated that piety is dear to the gods? Euth. Certainly. Soc. And when you say this, can you wonder at your words not standing firm, but walking away? Will you accuse me of being the Daedalus who makes them walk away, not perceiving that there is another and far greater artist than Daedalus who makes them go ‘round in a circle, and he is yourself; for the argument, as you will perceive, comes round to the same point. Were we not saying that the holy or pious was not the same with that which is loved of the gods? Have you forgotten?
Euth. I quite remember. Soc. And are you not saying that what is loved of the gods is holy; and is not this the same as what is dear to them-do you see? Euth. True. Soc. Then either we were wrong in former assertion; or, if we were right then, we are wrong now. Euth. One of the two must be true. Soc. Then we must begin again and ask: What is piety? That is an enquiry which I shall never be weary of pursuing as far as in me lies; and I entreat you not to scorn me, but to apply your mind to the utmost, and tell me the truth. For, if any man knows, you are he; and therefore I must detain you, like Proteus, until you tell. If you had not certainly known the nature of piety and impiety, I am confident that you would never, on behalf of a serf, have charged your aged father with murder. You would not have run such a risk of doing wrong in the sight of the gods, and you would have had too much respect for the opinions of men. I am sure, therefore, that you know the nature of piety and impiety. Speak out then, my dear Euthyphro, and do not hide your knowledge! Euth. Another time, Socrates; for I am in a hurry, and must go now. Soc. Alas, my companion! Will you leave me in despair? I was hoping that you would instruct me in the nature of piety and impiety; and then I might have cleared myself of Meletus and his indictment. I would have told him that I had been enlightened by Euthyphro, and had given up rash innovations and speculations, in which I indulged only through ignorance, and that now I am about to lead a better life.
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